Kenneth Hite ([info]princeofcairo) wrote,
@ 2006-07-31 07:04:00
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Entry tags:book review, sf

Venice Envy
At CONvergence, I was on the "Writing Craft: World" panel with a number of successful, published novelists, which seems to happen with some regularity on such panels. (My favorite instance was at Origins last year, when I found myself moderating a panel on writing characters that featured Harry Turtledove, Mike Stackpole, Erik Mona, and Rob Schwalb.) This is always kind of hilarious given that, until Secrets of the Ruined Temple came out,1 my longest published fiction was 750 words in one of the chapter-head vignettes in GURPS Infinite Worlds.

One of the more successful, as it turned out, of my CONvergence co-panelists was [info]scott_lynch, who said all manner of implausible nice things about my own work and asked if I'd allow him to sign a copy of his first novel, The Lies of Locke Lamora, as a gift to me. Little did Ser Lynch know of my consuming fondness for free books, although I suspect he may have guessed (being a writer himself) my consuming fondness for ego-boosting. It's been sitting on my table since, and I've really been hoping that it would be good, so I could write a review of it that would make him feel positively about his very generous gesture.

Well, it is good.

At the panel, I got a good bit of mileage out of my insistence that fantasy novelists should use Earth as their setting -- it's better researched, more interesting, and more dangerously weird than anywhere else. (Seriously, if you're not Tolkein or Leiber, I really don't want to read about your world. Honest. And you're not. Double honest.) Messer Lynch, giddily, spent much of the panel writhing about in mock agony at my pronouncement, knowing full well that his novel was set in the canal-riven, corrupt, quattrocento-feeling city state of "Camorra," but could just as easily have been set in Venice. Well, "just as easily," if Scott Lynch were Avram Davidson, but within Lynch's powers, if not exactly easily. Maybe with a dateline -- "Venice. Not Our Venice, Exactly. The Quattrocento, Likewise." Some research, sure, a bit of re-drafting here and there. Saints in for gods, that sort of thing. Or maybe not. Just leave the Roman gods in place and forge forward. It's been a thousand years, who knows what Hecate's cult would get up to? Heck, you could even leave the Elderglass (a nifty eldritch Precursor artifact underlying Camorra) in a particularly strange Venice. As it is, he's not fooling anyone. Even the cover artist knows it's Venice -- the cover depicts the Piazza of St. Mark.

It is a very great credit to Scott Lynch that my brain stopped screaming "Venice!" in my ear long about page 120-ish, and had resigned itself to the occasional interested "Now, here's how I'd have moved it around if this were Venice" by page 250-ish, and was simply zooming around with its finger in its mouth, meeping in excitement by the last thunderous climax.

Anyhow, if you don't share my particular hangup about fantasy settings, then I can't really imagine anything to robustly dislike about this book at all.2 Camorra is actually a pretty neat fantasy setting, if you like that kind of thing. Lynch manages to discuss the cuisine, history, religion, magic, urban landscape, and (some) sexual mores of his city without making it bloody obvious or boring. (That said, he is remarkably and frustratingly quiet about any architecture that isn't a Brutally Imposing Ducal Fortress, or built of Elderglass.) The braided narratives are a little clunky, reading like "The Origin of Locke Lamora" interspersed with the actual novel, and occasionally like "The Desperately Needed Set-Up for the Actual Novel's Plan for Locke Lamora," which is a pity, but hardly a crime. An uncharitable reader could, I suppose, see Locke Lamora and his big, badass buddy Jean Tannen as Yet Another Grey-Mouser-and-Fafhrd, although Locke and Jean are con artists, not thieves per se, and I think that's a plenty original twist, especially in fantasy, which depends more than most genres on unoriginality for its success.

But the voice -- the voice is really, really good, reminiscent in a way of the early Vlad Taltos books, but without too much of the "invulnerable GM's Pet NPC" feel to them that Brust has at times. Let me put it this way -- you just know, somehow, that when Scott Lynch describes a character as Absolutely Exhaustively Untouchable By Mortal Plot Device, that character will end up in the soup, in a gratifying (or at least salutary) fashion. (And Lynch is not afraid to murder his darlings. Or anyone else's. Fair warning.) For that voice, and a story that's actually not afraid to drive a plot all the way forward to the (gratifying and salutary) end, while setting up a natural curiosity about "what happens next," I'll forgive a flinch or two at the Bridge of Sighs.

[1] Why yes, "Ring Around the Sun," the introductory fiction in that fine Mage book, is indeed my work, as is the first, non-fictional, chapter. How kind of you to ask. No, I didn't typeset it.

[2] Well, there are dirty words in it. And whores, although we're carefully told in one of the few unlikely and obvious bits of setting-caulk that they run themselves just like in Sin City so it's only sort of nasty, but you can't really have Lankhmar without whores. Or Venice, for that matter.




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[info]archangelbeth
2006-07-31 12:09 pm UTC (link)
You had me at "con artists."

I must have this book.

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[info]richardthinks
2006-07-31 01:10 pm UTC (link)
99% of all space opera has such a powerful yearning to be put back on the sea, where it belongs, that little bits of brine break right through the narrative. Star Trek in particular suffered from this-storms, whirlpools, shoals, reefs. The only thing it couldn't decide on was whether it took place on Odysseus' wine dark sea or Sindbad's Indian Ocean.

The book looks like fun, but where would you file it if it were set in Venice; would it still go on the fantasy/SF shelves? How important is that for marketing?

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[info]princeofcairo
2006-07-31 08:13 pm UTC (link)
Marketing isn't my problem. On my bookshelves, I'd file a fantasy set on Earth with Tim Powers, Avram Davidson, Susanna Clarke, Neil Gaiman, David Drake, and all the other fantasy set on Earth.

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[info]krfsm
2006-07-31 01:12 pm UTC (link)
Sold! (Not as sold as when [info]autopope described Liz Williams' upcoming "The Demon In The City" as "Chow Yun Fat meets Miss Smila's Feeling for Snow in Hell, Confucian-style", but sold.)

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Amen!
(Anonymous)
2006-07-31 01:48 pm UTC (link)
I've been saying the same thing for years: unless there's a compelling reason to use a setting other than Earth, use historical or fantasy-historical Earth. I loathe "fantasy" worlds where doughty mariners from "Albion" battle sinister Inquisitors from "Iberinia" or whatever. Especially since they can seldom resist the urge to mix time periods and use the cool bits without the historical context (Inquisitors without Christianity and Islam; Enlightenment attitudes without the post-Reformation intellectual background; etc.).

The mental effort involved in constantly doing a search-and-replace for the real places and people is one barrier to suspension of disbelief. Also, it's sometimes hard to tell subtle clues by the author about his created world from just plain errors.

This rant was paid for by the Amalgamated Brotherhood of Sticklers, local 3.14159...

Cambias

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Re: Amen!
(Anonymous)
2006-07-31 10:31 pm UTC (link)
It sounds like what you're really objecting to are thinly disguised/altered versions of Earth (e.g., "Albion vs the Inquisitors of Iberinia"). It's hard to object to something like Earthsea on the grounds you cite, though it is certainly a setting other than Earth.

If it's done well, one of the things I like about "non-Earth" fantasy is the ability to mix elements from different times and cultures, if it's done with some kind of self-consistency and plausibility. (Or if the writing's really good.)

Do you "loathe" something like Discworld, where Pratchett is often deliberately mixing elements from different Earthly time periods and cultures for satirical and comic effect?

-- Peter

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Re: Amen!
(Anonymous)
2006-08-02 04:57 pm UTC (link)
Exactly! Kinda-sorta-Earth might as well be Earth, because _that's how the reader will approach it_.

Settings like Earthsea or Narnia have a _reason_ for not being Earth, and the stories there cannot be told on Earth. (Well, Narnia can, but it has to be a guy instead of a lion.)

Pratchett is sui generis (which someone needs to tell his imitators) and beyond criticism.

Cambias

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[info]chadu
2006-07-31 02:05 pm UTC (link)
The Brust comparison sold me.

Cu

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[info]elissa_carey
2006-07-31 02:45 pm UTC (link)
It was, definitely, an excellent read. It also made me want to attempt making the dishes he described.

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[info]ratmmjess
2006-07-31 03:21 pm UTC (link)
"At the panel, I got a good bit of mileage out of my insistence that fantasy novelists should use Earth as their setting -- it's better researched, more interesting, and more dangerously weird than anywhere else."

If my novel gets sold--my alternate history fantasy novel--I'm going to write, somewhere, "You'd be surprised at how little of this I had to make up."

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[info]richardthinks
2006-07-31 03:23 pm UTC (link)
kind of what Dan Brown did at the front of dVC?

Just make sure you know who you're insulting in the following pages... The catholic church seems like an open target.

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[info]ratmmjess
2006-07-31 03:25 pm UTC (link)
...?

Sorry?

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[info]richardthinks
2006-07-31 06:35 pm UTC (link)
Sorry - da Vinci Code fever recently gripped my wife, as a result I was called in to verify/deny the various truth claims that appear on the first page of the book.

Brown says that all his descriptions are accurate and that Opus Dei (his villain) and the Priory of Sion really do exist - it's written in such a way as to lead the casual reader to think It's All True, but without actually making any firm claims about anything. The insinuation that Opus Dei is some sinister cult was taken rather to heart by some members, apparently, causing quite a lot of offence - although not of the fatwa/death threat kind... which leads me to suggest that it's relatively safe to make a villain of the catholic church in general.

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IYHO
[info]tone_milazzo
2006-07-31 03:24 pm UTC (link)
>At the panel, I got a good bit of mileage out of my insistence that fantasy novelists should use Earth as their setting --

Do you have a rule of thumb for how much deviation is too much? And do montage settings (like King's Dark Tower) qualify as new worlds?

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Re: IYHO
[info]princeofcairo
2006-07-31 08:15 pm UTC (link)
"Too much" is "when I start minding," which is usually "when you start monkeying with geography if you're not Tolkein or Howard."

That said, I do cut deliberate montage/infradimensional settings like DT or Amber some extra slack that I don't for conventional "land of Settynge" books.

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[info]walsfeo
2006-07-31 03:55 pm UTC (link)
(Seriously, if you're not Tolkein or Leiber, I really don't want to read about your world. Honest. And you're not. Double honest.)

Pratchett. Pratchett should be added to that list.

And of course you were the one who recomended John Barnes to me, and his fantasy book was not based in earth. His SciFi is set in real world, and that is pretty good. And most Arthuian serial fantasy is pretty lame, I'd really prefer if people would mangle their own worlds. (Bernard Cornwell rocks though.)

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[info]archangelbeth
2006-07-31 06:00 pm UTC (link)
And Bujold's Chalion series. While I am under the impression that she's cribbed extensively from history, she's used only the bits that she felt like using.

(And then there's Carey's Kushiel series, which blatently uses old Earthly countries with a dose of religion-based magic.)

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[info]walsfeo
2006-07-31 07:47 pm UTC (link)
To be fair Pratchett started out as satirical parody of everything Ken likes and dislikes about Fantasy. I've been a fan of several Fantasy stories, but any of them populated by "off brands" of elf, dwarf, or the RPG of your choice probably don't really deserve mention. Sure I love Brust's The Phoenix Guards, but the world constantly throws disconnects at readers that either don't make sense or have to be explained. The unknown is to often used as a cheap tool to throw readers off the trail of what is happening, or allow the author to say "look how clever I am". Which they are not.

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(Anonymous)
2006-07-31 10:02 pm UTC (link)
I think Bujold's Chalion series (more specifically, the first two books) is an interesting example, particularly if you compare it with Guy Gavriel Kay's Lions of Al-Rassam, since they're both basing things on Reconquista Spain. For me, Kay's version was too close to Real History: basically our world with the serial numbers filed off and a new paint job. The upshot was he didn't do anything interesting with the (superficial) changes, and the story didn't depend on them.

Bujold, on the other hand, started with Spain (mostly 13th Century for the general political situation, with a bit of 15th Century dynastic politics) and then changed things significantly, in ways that mattered to the story -- in religion most of all. This, for me, works.

-- Peter Erwin

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[info]baduin
2008-09-29 06:28 pm UTC (link)
I still think the real Spain, the real Ferdinand and Isabella, and in the last part, the real Holy Roman Empire are much better thought out and make much more sense.

For example, making the Holy Emperor part of the Saxon tradition doesn't make much sense. Tolkien had the sense to invent the maps and the history, but keep the traditions, laws etc mostly unchanged.

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[info]princeofcairo
2006-07-31 08:16 pm UTC (link)
Barnes' One For The Morning Glory is set in "the Land of Fairy Tales," which is a) congruent to Earth, and b) forgivable in such an awesome, awesome novel.

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[info]jamescat
2006-08-02 05:27 pm UTC (link)
Indeed, an excellent book. Pulling off written swashbuckling is quite rare, but he manages it.

UK readers - it's 3 for 2 in Waterstones. Make haste!

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[info]armadillo_king
2006-08-07 04:00 pm UTC (link)
"At the panel, I got a good bit of mileage out of my insistence that fantasy novelists should use Earth as their setting -- it's better researched, more interesting, and more dangerously weird than anywhere else."

Shhhh. Ken, don't give away the good ideas.

If other folks can't learn from the examples of Tim Powers and other, let them continue to turn out generic fantasy. As for us . . .

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[info]lizey
2006-08-21 12:13 am UTC (link)
Just wanted to add an Amen! on the set-your-fucking-fantasy-on-Earth sentiment. I was wavering until I realised that this is what I do at the start of nine out of ten non-Earth fantasy novels - sit there rolling my eyes and thinking 'Oh, so this is Japan'. On top of that, places without an obvious parallel are too often boring and/or ridiculously illogical.

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[info]xnbach
2006-10-29 08:32 pm UTC (link)
I haver to say that the fantasy I generally like is from folks like Neil Gaiman, Tim Powers, and Charles de Lint. I guess this would make it the Urban Fantasy subgenre. The idea being that the more realistic everthing else happens to be, the easier it is to believe the fantasy bits. Faerie folk acting like faerie folk in some urban setting I can get behind. High weirdness involving subway lines and their magical symbolism is always a winner. Blueprints from somebody's Dungeons and Dragons campaign are just unreadable (especially when it becomes painfully obvious that the author's only exposure to myth and folklore have been through the pages of various D&D manuals).

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